La transcription de l'interview filmée :
Steven Greer : The Unknown Agenda
Barcelona, Spain, July 2009
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot.
Bill Ryan (BR): And I’m Bill Ryan. This is Sunday, the 26th of July, 2009. Have I got that right? I personally want to say that I’m delighted to be here with Steven Greer.
Of all the people who we get emails asking us to interview, you are number one on quite a long list. The reason for that is that people see Project Camelot as continuing to kick the ball that was kicked off by the Disclosure Project back in 1993. You started something that we’re doing our best to support you with in terms of bringing the truth to the world.
Steven Greer (SG): Oh, good. Thank you.
BR: We want to thank you for that.
SG: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you.
KC: So we have some questions for you, but they might not be the most comfortable of questions.
SG: Oh, I can take any questions.
KC: Okay. And we’ve heard that you’re not a wilting violet, as they call it, or whatever. So what we’re wondering here... because we have different philosophies, I think, and different approaches, and I think that’s really interesting.
I know that we started out, maybe, at the same place in terms of we’re taking witness testimony – and certainly you did – and that tactic was very effective and has stimulated us to go down the road we went on. We’ve been doing this for a little over three years now.
I just wondered if you have a philosophy that you feel like, or a trajectory, that brought you from witness testimony to free energy, and if you could talk a little bit about that road.
SG: Well, obviously the Disclosure Project involves many elements. One is the disclosure of the fact that we’re not alone.
The other is that there are highly classified projects that have been run illegally for about 50, over 50 years, dealing with this.
And, number three, you cannot say that this has been kept secret and it’s real without giving la raison d’etre... Why would something like this be kept secret?
Now, in the early days it could be argued that, well, there were religious issues, that the people would panic at the idea that there was life in outer space... or that there were theological objections. And in fact these still exist.
I had a junior Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientist say the reason that some of the information about the ancient structures on Mars has been withheld is that it would “collapse the foundations of all orthodox religions in the world.” To which I said: Great!
I mean, it’s time people who think the world’s 6,000 years old and we rode dinosaurs bareback need to get a life.
BR: We agree with that.
KC: [laughs] Yeah.
SG: Okay, so that was one area. But the largest one... and this is when everything went deep black in October 1954 – we know it to the day – was because they had actually figured out, and mastered, the electromagnetic / gravitic propulsion systems. So that was 55 years ago.
KC: Right.
SG: Okay, so 55 years ago there was the ability to master those technologies. And obviously, when the Rockefeller Commission, that reorganized the Department of Defense and the CIA, was put together by Eisenhower, what they did was reorganize it in a way so that these sort of issues were handled under work for other programs, and aerospace contracting entities, and high-tech entities, and really took it out of the oversight of the president and the Congress.
And that’s when it all “went south”and has been that way ever since.
The reason for that is because, if you acknowledge that UFOs are real, the very next thing that any bona fide scientist or policy analyst is going to ask is: Well, how in the hell are they getting from one star system to another?
And when that question is asked, it will be answered, because we have people on our team who can answer it in great detail.
BR: Yeah, they’re not going around in rocket ships.
SG: And when that is answered – I’m trying to finish one thought here – when that is answered, you’re going to then see the end of oil, gas, coal, nuclear power, all of it. There’s a five-hundred-trillion-dollar asset base that they’re sitting on and protecting. Two or three hundred people in corporations in the world control half the wealth of the planet – the net worth of the planet.
So the secrecy has to be understood within a larger macro-economic geopolitical crisis where there’s been accretion of enormous power in the hands of relatively few people, and that this has gotten worse, not better, since the gilded age of the Industrial Revolution’s dawn. It’s actually worse now than it was in the time of Cornelius Vanderbilt and the Rockefellers. It’s worse now than it was.
KC: Yeah, I definitely understand.
SG: So that, I think is… And so our focus, as we’ve learned more and more about the reasons for the secrecy and the kinds of technologies that are extant, is that we have concluded that it’s very, very important to be able to bring out those energy systems – at least what I call the “Level One” systems, the ones that you could put on a box over here... something about the size of a coffee table. And I’ve seen these.
Now, of course, seeing them and being able to bring them out and having people release them is another matter. But I’ve seen them.
They extract energy from... some would call the zero-point energy field, some would call it the quantum vacuum flux field... whatever you want to call it. But in the fabric of space-time around us there’s enormous electromagnetic potential that can be touched into and brought out, and that is one of the practical implications of disclosure.
I mean, there are many implications. One is informational, one is diplomatic contact, and one is the issue of the science and technology which could transform the planet, get us off of oil, stop global warming, end the crisis of the have and the have-nots and the poverty in the world. So that, I think, resonates with many people.
There are a certain number of people who are interested in extraterrestrial life. There’s a much larger number of people who are concerned about the environment, energy crisis, the poverty in the world, etcetera.
KC: So, is what you’re saying that what you were propelled towards is the latter? Because I know your emphasis is now really free energy, or it seems to be.
SG: No it isn’t. No, no, no.
KC: Well, it seems to be. Maybe I misunderstand…
SG: You need to not mis-state my priorities. Let me be very clear on this. We have three programs going on with equal bore – equal bore – simultaneously.
KC: Oh, really? Okay.
SG: Number one is CSETI, the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, which is an interplanetary, interstellar, diplomatic initiative. That was the founding entity and it’s still the primary focus.
The second is the Disclosure Project. That started as Project Starlight when I was briefing the CIA director and the Clintons and all these people.
It then evolved into the Disclosure Project when Clinton said: I won’t do it because I’ll end up like Jack Kennedy. And the Congress people that we met with said: This is too big a fish for us to reel in. We’re not going to do it.
So it kind of devolved onto our shoulders. Then that’s why we did in 2001 – to correct the date – the National Press Conference event and the Disclosure Project. And that still continues. We still continue to do that.
Then the third is the OrionProject.org and the focus on trying to identify people who have an understanding of these new physics and sciences so we can bring out some of the practical applications.
KC: Okay.
SG: So those three things are going on with equal bore. We have teams of people working on all of them.
KC: Oh, I see.
SG: I’m sort of the coordinator or head of those three projects, but they’re interrelated. They’re actually three sides of a pyramid or whatever... not pyramid, but three sides of one entity and three facets that are interlocking.
KC: I had a misunderstanding. Part of the reason is because…
SG: No, that’s good that you brought it up because a lot of people do have that misunderstanding.
KC: …we get a newsletter. The Orion Project, or however you refer to it, newsletter comes into my inbox and it is, you know, exclusively talking about more of the free energy side of things. So it’s a misconception, you know, but is out there, as you say. It’s very interesting to hear that you’re continuing these other…
SG: Yeah. And people have to understand... You know people say: What about disclosure?
I say: We have the testimony of 110 of these military witnesses out there. We have DVDs and other materials and books out there with thousands of pages of government documents.
We have put this positive proof and testimony out there and that then has launched a worldwide disclosure movement in many, many countries, as you know.
KC: Mm-hm.
SG: At this point, when we started that endeavor, it was 30 or 40 percent of the public thought these were real. Now it’s 80 percent. Some countries – in polls that they did recently here in Spain it was 90-some percent – think that we’re not alone and ETs are real.
So we feel that the big over-arching strategy of establishing that fact happened. What has not happened is, at least within America, an official acknowledgement of the issue and the ending of the secrecy. But this is due to a complex problem that I work on behind the scenes, for that’s where the problem is.
The problem is within Majestic. And the problem is within conventional political leaders and the military-industrial complex.
When we started this effort I had about a third of this Majestic group who thought what we were doing was something they would support. Now it’s 70 percent. Now the other 30 percent would probably like to see me dead.
But the point is – and they’re vicious – there are 70 percent of them now who are really lining up. This includes the elements within Majestic that are in Europe, that are within the Masonics, that are within a lot of secret organizations that are fed up with the secrecy and know that we’re at the end of how far we can take this silly game of secrecy and secret power.
So a lot of the work that I’ve been doing, and it has directly to do with disclosure, has to do with trying to fix that highly dysfunctional dynamic which cannot be ignored.
You cannot pretend like those lions aren’t out lurking in the jungle. You don’t have to capitulate, but you have to try to educate them and give them another vision.
One thing I say to the people is that people who are addicted to secret power, it’s... Kissinger once said power is the ultimate aphrodisiac... that then the secret power would be that on steroids and Viagra and every other thing – quite blunt.
And so, one of the real issues becomes what can you… You can’t just take away. You have to give.
So my job is to try to also give some of these leaders, both conventional leaders and people who are within these classified projects, a new vision – a vision that can guide the world out of its current direction, into a path of peace, safety, justice, free energy, and a whole new transformation of our civilization on this planet – very quickly.
Because, you know, we’ve run out of time, in my opinion. I don’t think we have another 50 or 100 years to fritter away.
KC: As it happens, neither do they. I mean, what we get from our secret witnesses and from people that are exposed to the Illuminati philosophy constantly is that our time is running out, in terms of…
Like, we just heard from a secret witness – and I’m running this by you to hear whether this coincides with what you know – that there is around ten months left of food before it runs out on the planet, and that there’s another three to four years’ worth of oxygen.
I mean, I don’t know if this is down to the minute or not, or whether it's more vague than it was stated to me, or more... You know, where you would fall in that category, in terms of how you understand that.
SG: Let me say that there are a lot of… My father-in-law used to famously say: Paper does not refuse ink; and in the modern era, that the computer screen does not refuse digits. So, in other words, anything can be said.
Now, one has to… My own assessment of that is that there are competing interests that try to use whatever axis that they have to provide a certain paradigm that is highly eschatological. The eschatological axis within Majestic is a very powerful one.
I remember meeting with a member of a Royal Family in Europe back in the ‘90s and his entire purpose in providing funding to abduction researchers was to – and I know who they are, all the mainline ones – was so that they would put the information out to the public so that the public would learn to hate enough of the aliens so that we could have an interplanetary war, which would be the Armageddon that would precipitate the return of Christ.
KC: Yeah, we’ve heard this.
SG: Now, this was a very specific Opus Dei perspective and that is really what is driving… It’s like Ahmadinejad in Iran saying that, well, it’d be okay if we went to nuclear war with Israelbecause that would force this Twelfth Imam, which is their return of their Christ, to return to Iran.
KC: Sure.
SG: So this eschatological end the world perspective is…
KC: So you’re actually saying... Just to cut to the chase here, you’re saying that this man’s testimony, to what I just said about ten months and four years, is basically him being programmed by the controllers, in a certain sense.
SG: Well, it’s “through a glass dimly”. In other words, yes, we’re headed for a crisis. Yes, we’re headed towards a hiatus, can I call it that, in the situation.
But what they don’t understand is that it is the end of one era and the opening of another. It isn’t the end of life on Earth. It is not going to be the end of the human race on this planet. These are all…
KC: We would certainly agree with that.
SG: This is… And so the conflation of certain misinterpreted spiritual traditions, whether it’s from the Book of Revelations or elsewhere, or the Mayan calendar and 2012, has created this sort of eschatological juggernaut – which is very Scientological, it’s very Majestic, and it has a lot of underpinnings within the philosophy of why the secrecy has continued on like it is.
This is one major axis of why the secrecy is continuing. The other one is the technological and money and control, the macro-economic control of the planet.
My point to people is that... For example, now I’ve been doing this for 19 years and I’ve had… You know, if you brief the CIA director you’ve had some good access, and that’s 16 years ago. My family put the first man on the Moon. So I have had access to people within classified projects for a lot of my life.
For example – and I know that we’re going to probably disagree on this because I saw what you wrote on your blog after my talk last night – there are people who have been exposed to what they wanted them to see. This Bob Lazar was one that they then allow to speak out.
Now the question is: What’s the agenda behind that allowing?
I have had more than a dozen people who have worked in facilities in Dulce and in Pine Gap in Australia and other places where they have actually been growing the Gray and Reptilian species that people think are ETs.
And the people who’ve been in the projects think they’re working alongside an alien – and they’re not. They’re absolutely what are called nano-bio-machines and they are Programmed Life Forms. There is no question that that is going on.
So the larger question becomes: If someone comes up to you with just an empirical observation, what is it they’re seeing?
Now I’m going to cross over into something even more controversial.
We have some people at Lockheed, and another program... I can’t say where it is but it’s in the South in an underground facility, and its chief scientist is someone I knew very well.
They have developed electromagnetic systems where they can put someone into a state, and they can go into – and this gets into a cosmological, complex discussion now – a lower astral, or denser astral field. And some would call this demonic.
They can actually see beings and creatures there and bring them in three-dimensional and materialize in flesh and blood – through these electronics.
So a lot of these things that people are seeing have nothing to do with interstellar and extraterrestrial.
So when I’m talking... when I talk about the interstellar civilizations that also have transdimensional capability... You can’t go through interstellar space at the speed of light or less.
KC: Right.
SG: But there’s a cosmological indigestion happening within Ufology and disclosure that I find disturbing because people are conflating interdimensional with extraterrestrial with PLFs, that are Programmed Life Forms, man-made.
All of this is being put together as if it is one thing, and it isn’t. It’s, unfortunately, much more complex than this. This is exactly why…
BR: We would agree with that as well. It’s very complex.
SG: This is why, when Martin Cannon, back in the late ‘80s, put together a 2000-footnoted paper and collection proving the military-human involvement with abductions, and that the creatures they were using were not ET... It wasn’t some alliance between Majestic and these ETs. The ETs wouldn’t bother with ’em.
Now, I say they’re aliens, but they’re not extraterrestrials. Okay? And now we’re getting into… and people say I’m being cheeky. I’m not, because these are very bizarre creatures. Some of them even… I’m going to take it one step further.
You’ve all heard of Roswell, and you’ve all heard that there have been a number of electromagnetic weapons systems that have targeted and knocked down interstellar vehicles... not at a great kill rate in the early days. – I hate to use the words kill rate. It’s terrible. – But it’s become more and more efficient since SDI, and since the ‘90s, particularly in the last five or ten years.
What happened, however, in the early days... They had enough crude stuff. And of course, we had things like the Philadelphia Experiment – which did not happen in Philadelphia. It happened in Rhode Island. That was just a cover story... that’s another whole discussion.
But that was in the ‘40s. So there were very advanced electronics that were already being used. And by the time the extraterrestrials showed up when we were detonating nuclear weapons, we were able, at Roswell, at our only nuclear bomb squadron, to have one of these weapons and a radar dome, or configuration, that caused the two of those to crash.
KC: Right.
SG: There were bodies on that. Some of them were living, and I have a witness who actually handled one of the living ones as late as 1950-’51 here in Virginia not far from where I live, at Camp Pearry [spells] P-E-A-R-R-Y, a very top secret facility. [Ed note: Greer means Camp Peary, Army experimental training center near Williamsburg]
Now, what’s interesting is that that genetic material from some of those bodies has subsequently been cloned, from a number of different species.
Now, you know, I have a daughter with a Ph.D. in neuroscience and genetics from the most prestigious university in the world.
What I’ve done is, I’ve looked at this, sort of... What the current state of neuroscience is in the non-classified world is that if they wished to, they could take cells from a human and clone them. Absolutely.
BR: Sure.
KC: Yes.
SG: Now, imagine what has existed within the classified world, because these were the people who were the… These were the humans who were the spiritual descendants of Mengele and the Nazis, Wernher von Braun and that whole cell.
KC: You’re talking about the scientists.
SG: The scientists who were brought into these classified projects, and who were at the foundation of the CIA and the early space program. So the highly compartmented programs that deal with this issue…
KC: Yeah.
SG: And this is the thing: Everyone talks about antigravity and this and that, but what they forget are the enormous advances that have happened between the early ‘40s and now in genetics and bioengineering and neuroscience.
Those have gone into application where they now have created these creatures that people think: Oh, that’s an extraterrestrial. I say: It is NOT an extraterrestrial!
So the whole thing has deliberately become confused so that people will make an assessment that there are the good aliens and the bad aliens.
And if we step into that “cowboys and Indians” mindset, they can then divide the human race into another war footing that will fulfill the Majestic plan that was hatched in the ‘50s, that will take us, as Douglas McArthur said in his last address to the Congress, to interplanetary war, which is the World War III they want.
KC: Right.
SG: So most of retail UFOlogy – I would say 90-plus percent of it – has embedded within it this message and this information and these images for the purpose of Majestic. Now, I think people do it completely innocently because…
KC: Right.
BR: I want to ask a direct question here because this is personal, and I haven’t said this on camera before. So here we go. I’m an abductee, and I’m a mountaineer. I was abducted out of my tent in December, 1981 in the Himalayas on the slopes of Makalu, which is in Nepal on the border of Tibet. And that wasn’t done by the military.
This was done in December, in winter in the Himalayas. I was taken out of my tent, floated over the glacier in the middle of the night and it was minus 40 degrees. This wasn’t the military who were doing that. They couldn’t do that.
SG: I’m not saying all contact has been military. I’m being very specific. I’m saying that there’s enough… Let’s look: If you have a nugget of gold and you dump a whole bunch of fool’s gold on it…
BR: Sure.
SG: …and no one’s doing an assay. And the question becomes: What part of it is extraterrestrial, what part of it is interdimensional…
KC: Exactly.
SG: …what part of it is manmade? And what part of it is some mixed-up, where people...?
And here I’ll make it a little more complicated. There are people who’ve had ET contact and when these classified projects find out about it they will then target them for an abduction so that their paradigm and their perception of this will become confused. This is…
KC: Okay. I think what happens here... We are aware of this level that you’re talking about. We’re aware of all these different dimensions because we’ve basically... (“dimensions” – not dimensions, but “dimensions of this argument”) ... because we’ve been exposed to these levels by different secret witnesses, okay?
But, and I think if we have a disagreement, what it is, is... I don’t know if it’s completely, you know? It’s not an either/or question. It’s a how much? It’s a percentage, as you say.
It’s going to be: Is there, sometime, abductions that are ET-related that are real ET-related – okay? – and handled by a certain group of ETs? Is there a MILAB element to it, and is that maybe the largest portion? Highly probable. Okay?
But is it exclusively that there are only good ETs? I think that when you extrapolate that, that’s where I have a problem.
SG: I think the problem is with the caricature of the…
KC: Because I think that that’s, philosophically, a problem of a limited way of looking at reality.
SG: No, I think the problem is a Manichaen view that has to divide entire species into good and bad. This is precisely what Hitler did when he would say, you know, the Jews are bad and they’re dirty and they’re this… I think we have to be extremely careful…
KC: I don’t think it’s necessary to do that quite so much as it is in terms of the overall… I mean, were talking universes. Okay? We’re talking multiple species out there that go beyond this solar system, certainly…
SG: Oh, I’m very aware of that.
KC: …and we’re talking about life in general, okay, so…
SG: But the point is that…
KC: I don’t think we can sit here and make a statement like what I heard you say on stage yesterday, which was: There are no bad ETs. I mean, how absurd.
SG: No, I think you could say that there is no evidence that the planet has been invaded by hostile – is the word I used – civilizations that have an intent…
KC: So far, to you; that you have not… In other words…
SG: You can’t prove a negative. This is axiomatic. What I can say…
KC: Well, then we have a problem. [laughs]
SG: You can’t prove a negative.
KC: In other words, that’s the point.
SG: No, no. But it is the point. You can’t prove a negative, but what you can do is go with the evidence that you do have.
One of the sets of evidence we have through CSETI, which has gone around the world and made contact all over the world with thousands of people... We have never had a harmful event happen. We have never had anything resembling anything that has frightened or harmed anyone on the contact team.
On the other hand, we have had members of our team that have been targeted with these psychotronic-related military-type abduction events, including myself.
KC: Right. I agree.
SG: So, what I have to go with is the evidence that I have. I also know that there’s the stage craft, to use an Institute for Strategic Studies document that I have, that talks about the stage craft of abductions because of its psychological warfare value to the agenda of an Us versus Them Manichaen worldview that would redound to the benefit of the military-industrial complex. So this is very circular.
I think that what I’m saying is one has to be very careful if you’re going to be involved with disclosure and contact in saying: This group is bad, this group is good.
We’re good and we’re bad. And we’re slipping right back into the Israelis versus the Palestinians, the Jews versus the Christians, the Muslims versus the whatever…
KC: Okay, but this is not where we’re going…
SG: But if you say that there are bad aliens that are working with a secret government, then…
KC: The language is actually Service to Others versus Service to Self, and that, in itself, is also a matter of degree. So it’s not really good. Anyone…
SG: But you can’t judge. See, here’s the problem.
KC: Well, none of us can. That’s my whole point here.
SG: Well, that’s my whole point!
KC: It’s a matter of degree.
SG: And I think before one starts going down the path of The sky is falling! and we start unleashing this Manichaen worldview of Here are the ones that are Service to Others and here’s the ones that are selfish... I would say that there’s some enlightened self-interest everywhere.
KC: Right.
SG: And let’s back this up just a little further. Let’s say that these civilizations…
KC: Especially by the invaders.
SG: By the who?
KC: [laughs] If there’s an invasion race, then enlightened self-interest is going to be the predominant model by which they’re going to operate, right?
SG: And, you know, you’re entitled to that. I think you’re…
KC: I’m positing. All I’m doing here… Look, until it actually happens in black and white…
SG: Look, where have they invaded? Who has been invaded? And here’s the…
KC: There is evidence. In other words, you can get evidence on both sides of the question.
SG: Well, but to characterize it as an invasion... What if there is an interstellar group that have different… Different ones of them have different functions. For example…
KC: Right.
SG: Okay, I’m going to take this a little further. There’s one group that has a very specific function. You might call this the Noah’s Ark function, that this planet is under tremendous environmental stress. We’re losing thousands of species and plants and animals.
I have spoken with people about the landing in Provence, of this ET craft in a lavender field, and there were these little ETs out picking lavender. It sounds hilarious. What were they doing?
BR: Just like the movie, yeah.
SG: Absolutely happened and it left physical trace. Could there be a human genome project that’s trying to protect the human genome and a genome project for Gaia, the Earth?
There could be all kinds of things going on that are beyond our ability to say: That’s happening by people who are selfish and invaders. And that’s happening by people who are the good ones.
KC: Exactly. Yes.
SG: I think that that sort of dichotomy and dualism that I read on your blog is the exact script that Majestic would want people to buy into to support interplanetary war. I think that there is another…
KC: Yeah. I think that the paranoia over interplanetary war per se, and that scenario, is laudable, okay. In a certain way we understand that you’re coming from a heartfelt perspective when you talk about Let’s not get caught up in polarities. Okay?
But what we don’t want to do is analyze this scene, this scenario, and the realities that are out there, and say we’ve come to definitive statement where we can say: There are only good ETs.
Now, let me tell you why that’s dangerous as well, because what that does is leave people, humans, and humanity possibly in general, in a vulnerable position. They are then going around following ET like the Pied Piper down whatever road they’re taken.
SG: No. I’ve always said, and unfortunately you haven’t read my books and things, but…
KC: Actually I have.
SG: Well, I have made it very clear that there are two things that are equally dangerous – the deification of these visitors or the demonization of them.
KC: Exactly.
SG: Both are equally dangerous, and I’ve said this since the ‘90s.
KC: Then we’re in agreement. But what you said on stage was not that.
SG: I didn’t deify them and I didn’t demonize them. My point is that we’re living in a universe together; we’re going to have to live together in that universe.
KC: Absolutely!
SG: The solutions are not going to be name-calling and We’re better than you are and Those are in service to self and Those in service to others and this whole thing.
I think we have to look at this from a much larger picture, and that is not only Earth, but the whole cosmos is going through a quantum moment.
KC: Right, that’s true.
SG: It is not just an Earth moment. It’s a universal moment…
KC: Okay.
SG: …the hallmark of which is universal peace, the hallmark of which is that. And so it is also true...
KC: The ideal would be...
SG: ...that interstellar civilizations are not allowed to leave their biosphere until they have become in agreement for peace. Now, and…
KC: That’s an assumption.
SG: This has been proven, because if these civilizations…
KC: No way. Nothing’s been proven on this planet to that degree of sophistication. There’s no way…
SG: Well, if they were here and they were invading and they were hostile, they would not have waited for us to have the kind of weapons we have today. They would have absolutely shut this civilization down in 1945.
KC: On the contrary... I mean, we have to actually get into a whole socio-political look at what it is to be an ET space-faring culture in search of planetoids or planets, and building new environments, and then what you do with them.
In a sense, you can actually take the Earth as a microcosm and you can look at How did it go when we took over different continents here…
SG: Yeah. But see, this is the whole problem…
KC: …and what was the model? Then we get to space and we also have to figure…
SG: This is a huge problem. You’re engaging in an anthropocentric projection onto interstellar civilizations…
KC: As above, so below. In other words…
SG: Well, so in your belief. But I think that you’re completely involved in this.
KC: All I’m saying is that we’re part of the universe and you can’t eliminate... And there’s no definitive decision on this part. You’re making absolute statements.
SG: Do you think our classified projects have traveled interstellar yet?
BR: Yes.
KC: Absolutely.
SG: They have not.
KC: We’ve got evidence that they have.
SG: Well, I’d love to see you prove it.
BR: We don’t have evidence but in May 2001 you said that they have superluminal capability.
SG: Yes.
BR: What have we done? Gone to Pluto with superluminal ability? It takes five seconds.
SG: No, because they’re not allowed to use it. Now here’s something that… There is a quarantine on this planet until we become peaceful. This is why, if you look at…
KC: There is a philosophy that there’s a quarantine.
SG: No. There is. If you look at even what Neil Armstrong said after…
KC: Why? Because an ET told you? I mean, really, let’s get down to it. We’re all in communication with different races…
SG: Well, let’s get back to the cover-up with what Neil Armstrong was heard saying. It’s in Timothy Good’s book, Above Top Secret. You can read it.
BR: Yep.
SG: And I’m sure you have. You’ve read it.
KC: A mind-controlled astronaut is what you’re talking about. You’re gonna give me testimony from a mind-controlled astronaut.
SG: No, no.
BR: Let’s hear where this goes. I’m interested.
SG: He said that when... We were basically warned off the Moon, and that’s why we didn’t continue to go.
KC: And I believe these warnings exist. There has been evidence that we’re warned off Mars because certain craft have never made it there, have been shot down, have disappeared, have had technical problems that haven’t been explained by NASA.
SG: Well, and one can put a xenophobic spin on that. Or one can say that perhaps there’s a wiser cosmic order that says that until a civilization reaches a certain amount of civility for the civilization, and peace, they are not allowed to travel amongst the stars; that the entry ticket is peace. And I think that is the situation.
KC: Okay, I understand that’s your philosophy.
SG: No, it’s not my philosophy. It’s what the evidence… This is not how I started out. This is what I have found to be true from many different witness testimonies and the observation overall and accurate…
KC: But our witness testimony would contradict that. So what do you do with that?
SG: Well, fine, I’d like to speak to them.
KC: Yeah, absolutely, and maybe we’ll have to compare notes. You know, really, to be honest with you, this is valuable, because what happens, for better or for worse, is we’re both out there. We’re both investigating these questions and they are open questions. Actually, the information has…
SG: They are. But I think it’s rather unhelpful that you go onto a blog and say that what I’m saying and doing is sinister.
KC: But I said it was…
SG: I think that, you know, I have never said anything harmful about you.
KC: It’s insidious. The reason it’s insidious is because…
SG: Insidious and this and that.
KC: …it leaves the Earth vulnerable…
SG: And I think this is exactly the kind of thing, and I’m going to absolutely... You know, you invited me to an interview.
KC: Sure.
SG: I’m going to provide an interview. If you want to over-talk everything I say, you can over-talk what I say.
KC: You over-talk us.
SG: But I am telling you that… But I’m being interviewed. So the point is…
KC: [laughs] It’s mutual. See, you don’t know this and I’m sorry we didn’t have time to tell you our philosophy of how we conduct an interview, but I did kind of warn you…
SG: You obviously want to have a debate.
KC: … that we have differences of opinions.
SG: We have differences of opinion, and that’s fine, but I think the most dangerous thing we can do is with... See, everyone has partial information.
KC: Right.
SG: To start making sweeping judgments that are negative... And you can say: Well, it’s not negative. We’re just saying that they’re in service to self versus service to others, and couch it however you wish.
But if we go down that path, we’re already creating a new cosmological Us versus Them, which is the absolute recapitulation of the mistake on Earth for the last 10,000 years. I think we can do better than that. I think we have to learn to look at these things…
And let’s say that everything that your philosophy and how you’re viewing this is correct. If it’s a hundred percent correct, I would still say the path of wisdom is education…
KC: Absolutely.
SG: …elucidation, engagement peacefully, higher states of consciousness – all of this.
BR: Yep.
SG: I don’t think it consists in characterizations, name-calling, what have you. Now that goes on on the diplomatic front and between nations on the Earth, and I think we have to be very careful not to engage in that sort of anthropocentric projection of the current state of duality of the human condition on these visitors. I think it may be much more difficult to make those kinds of assessments.
But if we go down that path, what we’ll be doing is that we’ll be dragging the baggage of the old era into this pivotal time, this embryonic time, where we’re trying to transition to a new civilization – the hallmark of which will be universal peace.
I don’t think we’re going to be going into a period of time of competing planetary systems having wars. I think that this is – all of that – is the Scientological view and it’s many of the eschatologists’ view.
I think that actually we’re going to go through a quantum transformation that’s global and interplanetary that will make this quite clear in the coming years, if not months.
I think that time is getting very short for how much more time we’re going to have before there’s this large transformation.
And I think the other thing is to say... I would say to people: If there is a civilization that is here for their own purely selfish interest, and have not a shred of altruism or concern for humanity or Earth, those are the beings I would want to meet with first.
And I’ve said this for years, because you need a diplomatic initiative to North Korea and Iran and China more than you do to Great Britain, if you’re an American, let’s say. So this is…
KC: Absolutely, but you can’t be in denial of the potentiality…
SG: There’s no denial here. I’m not some sort of Pollyanna fool. And that characterization of me being in denial... I’m not in denial about anything. I’m just saying that...
KC: Well, I… Wait, wait, wait. You’re personalizing this in a way that it’s not personal. In other words, what I said is I didn’t direct it at you. I said…